Need Help Picking A Pound Puppy

[KivaLuver]

Not sure if this is the correct board or not for this topic.

I have been roaming from shelter to shelter today looking at pound pups. I saw a wide range of behaviors from submissive urination to "let me rip your face off." So, I am hoping that Carole, Mary, Anna, Paige, Emily, and all the others here involved in rescue, fostering, training, and such, can offer some ideas for the positive and negative signs in behavior.

The type of dog I am wanting would I think be an adult male that would be somewhat submissive without being a basket case, anxiety ridden, or cause unnecessary drama for Kiva. The last shelter I was at had an older male chi mix dropped off this morning. He seemed friendly and just basically detached. The people who dropped him off said a car stopped in front of their home this morning and dumped him and an older chi mix female at the curb and drove off. The little terrier mix I was looking at has been adopted and surrendered back to the pound several times for a wide range of issues from digging to killing small pets (he ate the guinea pigs at the last home). The little male chi mix has to be in quarantine for two weeks before anyone can even touch him.

[minniesmom]

Kiva's getting a brudder!!! 

Good Luck Layne.. I hope you find a good match!

[A.J.]

   I can't wait to see Kiva's new sibling!  Good luck! 

[megs]

   Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!  So exciting!!!

Have you looked on Petfinder?  Usually there are private rescues that don't have a shelter to go to.

Whatever you do....good luck!!!

[ZoeyGirl (Jenn)]

   How exciting!!  When I was looking for Pepper, I checked out the three places here in town (APL-Animal Protective League; Animal Control and IL Humane Society) but I also checked out petfinder and the want ads in the paper.  I actually found her from a friend of a friend of a friend.  I was very lucky.  She's such a great girl. 

I also learned that the APL gets alot of their pets from Animal Control.  I think they tried and get the ones that are adoptable and may be in line to be euthanized.  They have a guy right now that I would love to go get but we have to wait.  Good luck w/ your search.

[Kim H]

how exciting Layne.  When evaluating a dog, its best to spend some time with the dog first. Plan to have your trip last an hour. Take the first half hour to observe the dog and watch and let them get comfortable with you. Spend the second half interacting with them and doing some temperment testing. Then on your second trip bring Kiva.  Rather than type it all out this info, from the american humane society website says it more eloquently than me.

Dog temperament-testing tips

Check out all the dogs.
You may be tempted to stop looking after seeing only a few, but you owe it to the dogs to see them all. Some shelters put their most adoptable dogs further back in the kennels to give the less adoptable ones a better chance at being seen.

Find out how long a dog has been at the shelter.
Dogs need at least two to three days to adjust to their new environment. New arrivals will probably still be searching for their owners. If the dog has been there for a week and still seems distracted, it may be a bit unfocused and may require more time to train.

Determine whether the dog is friendly.
To find a friendly and sociable canine, use the "hand and talk" test used by animal behaviorists. First, put your hand out to see if the dog will sniff or lick it. Then talk to the dog. Social dogs will respond quickly by coming to you and even rubbing their bodies up against you. You want a dog that seeks out people and wants contact.

Meet with the dog in a quiet indoor environment.
When you find a dog that you would like to know better, ask the staff where you can visit quietly with the animal. To see if the dog is interested in people, spend a few minutes ignoring him or her. A very social dog will soon try to solicit your attention.

Test the dog's touch tolerance.
Pet the dog about 15 times. Does the animal want you to continue or does it pull away? This tells how much physical contact the dog is willing to tolerate.

Test the dog's arousal.
Jump around and make squeaking noises for about 15 seconds. See how excited the dog gets and how long it takes for it to calm down. Some dogs may require extra effort and patience to quiet themselves.

Test the dog for separation anxiety.
Walk out of the room and leave the dog alone for a few minutes. When you re-enter the room, check its reaction. Does the dog seem stressed or out of breath? These signs may indicate the dog suffers from separation anxiety.

Walk the dog (if the shelter allows it).
At this point, the dog may be more interested in the smells and sights of the great outdoors than you. The dog will also pull on the leash, but that has no bearing on future training. What you want to know is how the dog reacts to noise and traffic and whether the dog is prone to chasing moving objects, like cars or feet.

Test the dog's motivation.
An animal motivated by a ball or a treat is much easier to train.

Determine if the dog is child-friendly.
It's always a good sign when a dog goes to children first. In homes with children under seven years of age, it's important that the dog prefers the children to the adults. If the dog has no tolerance buffer to begin with, it may immediately react to the handling and behavior of children.

[minniesmom]

Good information Kim!

Layne...  have someone video this.. please.. 

Jump around and make squeaking noises for about 15 seconds

I'd pay money to see it..

[Kim H]

 

[mmgy]

Congratulations Layne!!!!!!

One caveat to Kim's checklist.....sometimes dogs that are left in a shelter go kennel crazy after a few days. So just because one may be acting up a bit, don't discount him. See if there's someone around that can tell you about his behavior when he first came to the shelter.

The chi mix that was "detached"...look at him again tomorrow. He might be a bit more settled, so that you can see more of his personality.

I'm really glad you're looking at a shelter, but you may find it easier to pick a dog through private rescue. They're more likely to allow Kiva to interact with a dog for practice, and a dog living in a foster home will come to you with more background info......

On the other hand, your little diva may surprise you! She may be more accepting  of a new dog than you think she will be.

[Hill]

To bad you live so far north Layne... http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=7819650

This guy comes from the "rescue" (I wish I could make the quote mark bigger and maybe in red or orange) that Marshall came from! 

Seriously though... go look at the little Chi again. Bruno was sooo disoriented for the first several days after we got him. It was pretty sad to watch.
Good luck!!

[Malnmutt]

Also, if you can, watch the interaction between the shelter staff and the dog. A lot of times you'll just be a stranger but the staff is the dog's "family" and that's how the dog (most likely) WILL act for you.

Don't totally discount a dog that going ape in the kennel... A LOT of dogs get very nervous and upset after just a bit and will start aggressing in the kennel but will never do it in another situation and are totally find outside of the kennel and in a home.

AND keep in mind, above all else, that kennels are the WORST place in the universe for a dog. They are loud, smelly and there are strangers staring and you can't get away! Dogs are constantly at a stress level of at least 7 the whole time.

[Sally]

I have nothing valuable to add, but wanted to say good luck in your search for Kiva's brother!  How exciting!

[janpo1]

The last two times I adopted from a shelter i went with my heart and then my mind.  I was not bringing that dog home though to another dog already in the house so i don't have any hints on that.

Plan to spend a while at the shelter when you look the first time.  The first time does not mean that you have to pick one that day.  I went down 3 times before i got molly.

Ginger was easy~ ginger picked me and my kids.  When we walked down the rows of cages at the shelter all the dogs were barking and going nuts.  I almost didn't even see Ginger because she was in the bottom cage and quiet.   She was sitting at the front of her cage when our eye's met and she raised her front left paw.  That did it~ she had stolen and melted my heart in that quick of a time and I did take her home that day right away.  She was there already almost 3 weeks and that was a kill shelter and I couldn't let her stay there one more day.

When I got molly it was different .  There was no instant knowing she should be mine.  I thought long and hard. After all i went to the shelter to try and find another collie/chow mix like ginger.  Now enter Molly dobie/gs.  I couldn't get any further apart.  But Molly pulled at my heart strings when we took her into a room where they let the owners and dog's meet.  She was so playful and inquisitive!!  She came up to me instantly in the room and let me pet her.  Then she looked out the window they have there to see what was going on  out front .  After playing some she layed down in the middle of the floor.  She did this the second and third time i went down also.  Exact same thing~ kiss, play, look, and lay down.
What a calm dog i thought!  She's not going to be any trouble at all.   WRONG!  Sometimes their personalities don't show up for a good couple of weeks after they get home which is what happened with molly.  Housebreaking was not an issue but she liked to chew and her energy!  I don't think i saw her lay down again for a month!  Just joking.

Layne~ i am so happy for you and so glad your considering going to a shelter for your next heart dog.  They are the best and they repay you every single day of their life with love and gratitude.  I think they do know they were saved.

KIVA'S getting a BROTHER!!



 

[Anna and Mabel]

Layne I am so excited for you.  Here is the temperament test that we use.  It is a little redundant of other posts but gives you step by step instructions. 

Let me know if you need any other help and good luck finding a new family member!

SHELTER TEST CHECKLIST

Credit *must* be given to The Rottweiler Rescue Society (Ontario) Canada and John Rogerson, Blue Cross, Britain

NAME & ADDRESS________________________________ _______________________________
If any confusing results to the test are evident, or conflicting evidence results, re-test the dog on another day with another evaluator. Compare the two tests.
The first eight tests are observational, and should be memorized so that the evaluator flows from one to the next with little interruption, stopping to record the findings after 3 or 4 tests have been run.

Tests 1-8 are done with the dog alone in the kennel/run (ie: separated from you by a barrier).
1. Sideways Approach: crouch down sideways to the dog and look ahead, not at the dog.
Reaction: Friendly? Disinterested? Aggressive? Shy? Demanding? More interested in other dogs?
_______________________________________ _________________________________
2. First Contact: turn and face the dog, crouching, talk in a quiet and friendly manner. Do not stare. Give only casual eye contact;
Reaction: as above, but add Fearful?.
_______________________________________ _________________________________
3. Touch I: without looking directly at the dog, place your hand flat on the kennel door.
Reaction: Dog positions itself to be stroked? Tries to get attention? Disinterested? Moves away?  Aggressive?
_______________________________________ _________________________________
4. Touch II: Move your hand and/or yourself further away along the kennel door.
Reaction: Dog repositions itself for a stroke? Tries to get attention? Disinterested? Moves away?
_______________________________________ _________________________________
5. Casual eye contact: remove hand contact. Look at dog and talk to it casually.
Reaction: Friendly: looks back and wags tail? Friendly: looks away submissively? Disinterested? Shy/fearful? Aggressive?
_______________________________________ _________________________________
6. Stare: Open eyes wide and stare at dog. Follow it’s eyes with yours. Lean forward slightly. Do not speak.
Reaction: Friendly? Fearful? Submissive? Aggressive (offensively comes towards you)?
Defensive (aggressively backs away)?
_______________________________________ _________________________________
7. Threat: make a small sudden movement towards the kennel with eye contact, coupled with a loud shout. Bang your hands on the kennel door.
Reaction: Friendly? Fearful? Aggressive/Offensive/Defensive display? Submissive?
Do Not do step number 7 for Adopt-A-Rott tests.

8. Separation: Make a fuss over the dog. Talk to him. Touch him through the kennel door. When he is worked up, turn your back and ignore him.
Reaction: Disinterested? Accepts separation quickly? Barks/whines/jumps at you for some time after?
_______________________________________ _________________________________
9. BREAK TIME. Leave the room for several minutes and re-compose yourself as a neutral person.
If the dog has shown repeated aggression to 2 or more tests, discontinue further testing or proceed with caution. All subsequent tests are hands on, with the dog out of the kennel. Proceed with caution or discontinue further tests if dog shows threat in any subsequent test

10. Physical handling: Rate Good, Fair or Poor:
Ears ______________________________
Mouth _____________________________
Front and Back feet _______________
Torso _____________________________
Genitals __________________________
List details of behavior with each area if noteworthy.
_______________________________________ _________________________________
11. Submissive Position I: With the dog sitting/standing, stand partially over the dog and touch from above. Stand over the head and reach down over the shoulders to the under chest.
Reaction: Friendly? Disinterested? Aggressive: moves away in defense? Aggressive: comes towards you threateningly or stiffens? Shy/Fearful?
_______________________________________ __________________________________
12. Submissive Position II: Try to coax the dog to lie down. Try to get him into a belly-up position in a positive way...no forcing. Coax the dog to enjoy a belly-rub on it’s side or belly-up. Try to get him to enjoy a rolling rub.
Reaction: Allows you to roll him over; is happy? Allows you to roll him over; is NOT happy?  Will physically NOT allow you to roll him over, but is not aggressive? Aggressive? Shy/moves away?
_______________________________________ __________________________________
13. Play and Calm Down: Play with the dog in an excited fashion. Use anything motivationally necessary to engage the dog. When the dog is playing, ask him to settle down. Evaluate the dog in play and calm-down.
Reaction: Dog played acceptably? Dog played too aggressively? Dog calms quickly? Dog calms eventually? Dog does not calm down acceptably?
_______________________________________ __________________________________
14. Prey Drive: Handler holds dog out of sight on a loose leash. You run across the dog’s path about 10-20 feet in front.
Reaction: Disinterested in you? Interested but does not attempt to chase you? Attempts to chase playfully? Attempts to chase aggressively?
_______________________________________ __________________________________



15. Dog/Dog Aggression: Prey Drive: As above, but you run across the dog’s path with an on-leash neutral dog.
Reaction: as above. Note whether the dog is coming for you or the other dog in any chase attempt.
_______________________________________ __________________________________
16. Resource-Guarding I: Food: (advise shelter to make sure dog is hungry before your arrival that day)..Put a small amount of kibble (one cup) in a bowl on the floor and let the dog begin eating while you hold the bowl by the edge. Take the bowl away before the dog is finished.
Reaction: Dog will not approach the bowl with you holding it? Dog will eat and allows you to remove bowl (does not care)? Dog will eat and allows you to remove bowl but is: not happy: pushy? Dog attempts to regain possession of bowl? Dog is aggressive?
_______________________________________ __________________________________
17. Reaction to collar: Touch the collar of the dog. Stand the dog using the collar. Attempt to lead the dog by the collar. Watch for any reactions. Reward good behavior with your voice.
Reaction: Dog moves along happily? Dog moves with reservation? Dog refused to be lead by the collar? Aggressive? Shy/fearful/defensive?
_______________________________________ __________________________________
18. Resource Guarding II (2 rawhides needed): Possessions: give the dog an 8" to 12" rawhide (enough to give your fingers some clearance). Allow him to enjoy it for several minutes uninterrupted. Attempt to call him to you and take the rawhide while showing him the other. If he refuses, throw #2 a couple of feet away. Pick up #1 as he goes for #2. Repeat this trading pattern until he is willing to drop his from his mouth to come get yours, hopefully from your hand eventually, dropping his at your feet. Try to take possession of both on command as he learns the game.
Reaction: Willingly gave up #1 on the 1st attempt? Let you take #1 but was not happy? Willingly gave up after several trades? Let you take it after several trades but was not happy? Possessive aggressive over both?
_______________________________________ _________________________________

[LoveNewfies]

Jump around and make squeaking noises for about 15 seconds

I'd pay money to see it..

Oh, me too   

Good luck, Layne - can't wait to see Kiva's little brudder. 

[KivaLuver]

Thanks everyone. I will try and print off your suggestions. It took me a while to get back here since I lost my DSL and am on dial up for the next few weeks.

The animal shelter I visited with the little Chi mix said they put the dogs down after they start showing signs of being "cage crazy." Whatever that is. They said at that point the dogs are no longer adoptable.

I have tried the local rescues (there are hundreds of them) but I have not moved to a house yet so they find me unfit to have a rescue. My options are the SPCA, HSUSA, or the local pounds.

I'll keep everyone posted on my progress.

[Biscuitsmom]

  Congrats on getting a new pooch! Can't wait to hear more!

[Mr. Chips and Annie's Mom (Judy)]

I have tried the local rescues (there are hundreds of them) but I have not moved to a house yet so they find me unfit to have a rescue.

This is absurd. I got Chips from the Humane Society and all they did was call the apartment complex and find out if indeed I could have a dog there. Now if I had been looking at 50 pounders and larger maybe they would have said no to me.

What is the latest on your quest?

[KivaLuver]

Now that Kiva is scheduled for surgery in two weeks, I am holding off. It seems like everything in my life is being placed on hold lately.   I don't want Kiva having to adjust to a new family member and being in recovery at the same time. I have this odd belief that the perfect dog will come along at the perfect time. To say I adore Kiva is an understatement and it took my ages to find her breeder. Then I had to wait for her to be born.